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Post by vicki on Sept 29, 2005 5:44:50 GMT -5
No, I was talking about general relaxation tapes. I don't think the ones directed at dental fears work for many people with a dental phobia. I suppose there's the usual "anchoring" etc. which works for some types of dental anxiety in conjunction with other things. I'm not a huge fan myself. ---- I'm sort of looking at relaxation techniques in relation to cessation of habits (e. g. bruxism, overeating, smoking), rather than dental phobia . I think you could be right about them not working for people with a dental phobia (or a whole bag full like me! ) - the nature of fears and phobias can be really complex (not that I'd know anything about that!) so catering to individuals via a mass production method is a pretty much impossible task. Although I've not yet come across a specific dental phobia track, I've seen various suggestion scripts for use in hypnosis which I have actually tried in the tracks I record for myself (more out of curiosity though as I knew it was too 'general' to make a difference). Most of these methods focus on anchoring and sometimes reframing of the situation in general. But because everyone has different 'triggers', again, the chances of it 'hitting the right buttons' is pretty slim. One area where I have felt some benefit though, has been the use of 'relaxation hypnosis' in the couple of weeks before a dental appointment - I'm usually that stressed out and having panic attacks in the middle of the night that I can't sleep. By the time I get to the appointment, I not only feel completely terrified but also ill through lack of sleep (I probably look like I've got a hangover and been dragged through a hedge backwards!). If I start using hypnosis every night maybe 2-3 weeks beforehand, then I start to feel a bit calmer during the night so I can at least get some sleep even if it's not as much as I'd like. I listen to the Paul McKenna one I mentioned before (that's good because it's only 30 minutes so I don't usually fall asleep during it). I bought one from www.hypnotist.uk.com that was recommended to me as well - it's good but the induction technique is a bit heavy going for me - so I would imagine if you're a newcomer to hypnosis, something more simple and shorter would be a better choice. I also got a book not long after I'd been on the course - Hypnosis for Beginners by William Hewitt. It has some useful relaxation/anti stress/panic scripts in it. There is also quite a good section on guided visualisation - I have a track I recorded about being on a calm beach which incorporates sea noises from another CD I've got. Obviously the more you practice the visualisation techniques then the better you get. The way you think (i.e. in words, pictures or movies) also affects how you experience it. I usually think in movies so it probably makes it easier for me but the downside of this is that at dental appointments, my anxiety is probably greatly increased as a result. I've not actually tried anything in relation to cessation of specific habits/behaviours yet so I don't know how effective they are. I would imagine it depends a great deal on what causes it in the first place, but I have heard positive things about various 'stop smoking' CD's. As with all habits and fears though, part of the battle is that you actually have to commit to making a change or stopping whatever 'it' is. Because you're in control of your own mind, you are free to choose what you do and don't do, therefore I would think it's probably unlikely that such self help CD's etc would actually "cure" the problem on their own - like you said, they seem to be more useful when used in conjunction with other methods. From what I've seen and heard so far, the role of relaxation/hypnosis track in relation to quitting a habit, seems to be a support one where it 'prepares the mind' more to accept new thoughts and possibilities rather than 'commanding' it to stop 'it'... I dunno, just a thought. Nah... it means that you're effectively allocating your mental energy, lol ;D I must remember that one!! ;D Well, if you can figure it out, let me know! Maybe it's not compatible though. I'm just looking for free options - not everyone can afford to buy CDs and I'm not going to advocate illegal activities, if you get my drift "Free" is good - it's one of the most beautiful words in the English language! . I've been speaking to someone at work - re. getting it to download on a mac. Apparently if you're using Safari, the once the file has finished playing in it's separate window, you go to File > Save as... I don't know whether it works or not as my mac hates me and won't let me use Safari! Statistically speaking, the mac 'thing' only affects about 4-5% of viewers (can't believe more people haven't converted to mac!) but it would be good to include instructions for both. If you have a link to this website, it might be worth including some instructions for people so that they are able to download the tracks properly. It's a weird one - can't figure it out, either! Accents are really important, so I'm trying to find suitable ones for all nationalities. For Australia, a guy called Rick Collingwood has been recommended, but his tapes are impossible to get hold of in Europe. Easier in the US (amazon.com sells them). But as you said, you have to be able to establish rapport, otherwise it's a real turn-off (I found that with Glenn Harrold). Interesting stuff re. the sat nav systems - I would think the same goes for relaxation tapes... Different voices for different countries is definitely a good idea. It seems to work well if the regional accent is neutral sometimes e.g. BBC English, although I have listened to tracks or other people during hypnosis sessions where the accent has been a local accent (usually similar to my own) and that has been OK as well. Anything to keep things simple, lol. I'm all for that! (Says she - Queen of the long posts! ;D)
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Post by letsconnect on Sept 29, 2005 17:55:01 GMT -5
I'm not 100% sure what "reframing" actually refers to, but one thing I really found helpful for myself was to picture the situation from the dentist's perspective (it helped that he allowed me to sit on his chair the very first time I was on - it sort of changed my perspective dramatically, if you get my drift). Don't know if others would find that helpful, but for me, it definitely worked. Oh, I'll have to add that to my mental list . Will have to check out the Paul McKenna CD as well, if I can get hold of it. Of the tracks I've assembled so far, I like Paul Scheele's paraliminals the best by a long stretch - instant relaxation! That's the ones I keep coming back to ("Instantaneous Personal Magnetism" is particularly good, even though I can never remember afterwards what it was about, LOL! The induction is brilliant). They're really short, too, which is great given my attention span (actually, I've just checked and it's 25 minutes long, apparently - feels more like 10 minutes). Very pleasurable indeed ;D.
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Post by vicki on Sept 30, 2005 11:25:52 GMT -5
I'm not 100% sure what "reframing" actually refers to, but one thing I really found helpful for myself was to picture the situation from the dentist's perspective (it helped that he allowed me to sit on his chair the very first time I was on - it sort of changed my perspective dramatically, if you get my drift). Don't know if others would find that helpful, but for me, it definitely worked. That's about it in a nutshell - viewing something from another perspective when in the trance state. Usually it involves either seeing the situation through the eyes of another person who is connected to the situation or stepping out of the situation and watching from a distance as an outsider observer as though it's a play or on TV. So, in what you've described above, you did it for real rather than running through 'possibilities' or 'outcomes' in the mind as with hypnosis. How did it feel? Pretty strange I should imagine? It sounds like a pretty sound idea if you can do it. I think I've got a few hurdles to jump before I get to that stage though as I would think it takes a fair amount of courage. Another technique I've come across quite a lot is where you are asked to visualise the scene/situation as accurately as possible. If you think in 'movies' then you are told to change things so that the 'characters' have funny voices and the scene is generally distorted. Other examples include listening to the conversations and turning the volume down as though it's a TV programme. If you think in pictures then you are asked to picture the scene as a colour photo which you then change to black and white, shrink and move off into the distance until it disappears. I've tried the above visualising thing a few times but it doesn't tend to work for me personally for some reason. Not quite sure why but then I suppose everyone is different - maybe because the changes are symbolic rather than actual?. With reframing, it opens up other possibilities to consider so I think that's maybe more useful - for me anyway. What works for some won't necessarily work for others and as they say "there's more than one way to skin a cat!". Of the tracks I've assembled so far, I like Paul Scheele's paraliminals the best by a long stretch - instant relaxation! That's the ones I keep coming back to "Instantaneous Personal Magnetism" is particularly good, even though I can never remember afterwards what it was about, LOL! Sounds like good stuff - I must try it out . Where can you buy/download it from? Think you're right - I find the visualization ones really strenuous and usually give up walking on a sunny meadow or stepping into some sort of image of myself after a minute or two (aren't iPod's great?). Probably has to do with me not being all that visually inclined. Maybe I'm the kinesthetic (sp??) type... I find it tends to depend on what I'm using the 'tape' for. If it's purely for relaxation in response to stress or panic (as is the case for a couple of weeks before appointments) then because I'm really on edge, my concentration goes so I really need something that doesn't require much effort, but which produces quick results. If on the other hand, I'm using it for a specific purpose i.e. to change something, then I'm usually in a better frame of mind so to speak and can therefore concentrate more. In this situation, visualisation is OK for me and I can spend hours walking along a beach, swimming in the sea or whatever! Oh no, I wasn't talking about themed tapes, but general relaxation tapes. I'm trying to figure out the usefulness of a simple 3-step technique (not my idea) for breaking habits. That's a more tricky one. I suppose it depends on loads of factors such as what the habit is, what the 3 steps are and the issues surrounding it etc. I would think that something like this would rely on the reason for the habit occurring being the same or similar in all cases in order for the 'steps' to work the same for everyone? So far I've only tried one CD of this type - Paul McKenna again (Not a favourite as such but I was buying a newspaper in WHSmith and it was by the till so I thought "Why not? What the hell, I'll give it a whirl!" - "I Can Make You Slim" - similar sort of structure to "Change Your Life In Seven Days"). The CD contains a 30 minute track which programmes the mind to receive and process the info in the book. The book is in stages which need to be completed in order - one chapter a day (more than 3 steps but sort of the same thing in principle). Maybe (though I don't know if people really are "free to choose" when the "choice" goes against their unconscious mind) - the question I'm looking at is "what comes first"? Does it work better to make a conscious decision and THEN supplement this decision with aids targetted at the subconsious mind, or change the subconscious mind first and THEN supplement this by conscious decisions? I know, sounds a bit weird. Even to me, LOL. In my experience, there's nothing more weird than the human mind! I suppose that's a bit like "What comes first; the chicken or the egg?". I think in my case, it was a subconscious thought that I couldn't cope with the dental phobia anymore so I decided to consciously examine it to see what could be done to both change the subconscious and therefore the conscious thought processes, but then again it could be the other way round! In my case, some of the issues are so 'deep' in the subconscious while others require a more 'conscious' change - so I think the two can in some cases be tangled up in such a way, that some issues will work one way round and some the other. Doesn't really answer the question does it? Those paraliminals are American, but it's a very neutral accent (for a change, not one of those deep male voices, but a rather -err, hope this isn't deemed politically incorrect- gay accent. Very soothing ;D). Nothing wrong with "politically incorrect"! ;D It's only a problem if it *genuinely* causes problems or offends people. Is the Paul McKenna CD called "Change your life in 7 days" as well, or does it have a different title from the book? The CD comes with the book - it acts as a mind programming tool to make you more receptive to the content of the book - you're supposed to read a chapter a day (Or like me - one chapter every week or so - too busy surfing the net ) and listen to the CD each time before you read the book. Because the induction is fairly quick though I sometimes use the CD on it's own just to chill for 30 minutes! ;D
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Post by letsconnect on Sept 30, 2005 15:25:04 GMT -5
Quite the opposite of courage - I was too scared to go near "the chair" ... but something just clicked with me during that moment. Yeah, there are a few different variations on that theme (I listened to the "Anxiety-Free" paraliminal last night and from what little I can remember, it was similar, but not quite as elaborate). Actually, I thought it might well work for certain types of dental anxiety (not too sure which ones though ). I believe it's called something weird like submodality modification in NLP-speak (not a huge fan myself, but that's more because of the underlying philosophy). Probably. I couldn't think of anything I'm scared of, which rendered the exercise kind of useless, lol . I felt that it would work for someone who *truly* feels their fear is not warranted. But never having been in that position, it's impossible to tell. Try before you buy - apparently, some people hate those paraliminals (and the voice gets mixed reports, too). I'll send you a PM with instructions on how to obtain a sample - the quality isn't fantastic, but you'll get the general idea. The actual CDs are pretty expensive at $29.99 a pop from the official website (haven't checked if anyone else sells them - amazon don't). Definitely does the trick for me though, so I'm going to order the "Deep Relaxation" one and maybe a couple of other ones (actually, I can get a free one in return for a link to their website as well). URL is www.learningstrategies.com/Paraliminal/Home.htmlYou DEFINITELY need earphones though - it doesn't work at all otherwise! I need something that requires no effort, period ;D! That's what I like about those paraliminals (well, the relaxation ones, anyway) - I suppose all I really want is canned "aren't you great?" messages ... The steps (from memory, I hope I'm not getting this wrong) are: 1. hourly positive affirmations 2. 2 daily 20-min relaxation tape sessions (1 before going to sleep), for 6 weeks or thereabouts (1. and 2. run simultaneously) 3. can't remember (I think it was making a conscious decision to change the behaviour, but not too sure!) Don't think anyone has the answer, anyway. As you say, it's a bit messy! Changing your thoughts doesn't automatically translate into being able to make changes to reality, but subconscious changes can definitely make you think differently about a situation (I better stop this psychowaffle right here - I haven't even had a drink yet, LOL ). Well, who cares, as long as whatever works works. I managed to get hold of some more Paul McKenna stuff, and something really odd happened: I'm not able to follow the CDs because he speaks so quickly (he tells you to imagine something and by the time I've managed to imagine it, have lost the track completely), but the same thing doesn't seem to happen (at least not to the same extent) if I use the earphones the wrong way round Maybe my hemispheres are the wrong way round!
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Post by vicki on Oct 2, 2005 8:32:10 GMT -5
Quite the opposite of courage - I was too scared to go near "the chair" ... but something just clicked with me during that moment. I'm still terrified of "the chair" - the sight of it sends a nasty shock through my body . Everytime the door opens and my name is called, I make it as far as the open doorway and that's where I often get stuck - it's like my feet are glued to the floor. I stand there dithering and looking like I've seen a ghost. At the first appointment with the current dentist, when I stood there he said (smirking): "Are you coming in or not?" Fortunately I managed to force myself to walk into the room even though I really wanted to say "No I'm not!", turn round and run out of there. Ever taken a pet to the vets? If you take a dog, they seem to know exactly where they are. When the door opens and you are called in, they behave as though their feet are nailed to the floor - there is no way they will go in and see the vet unless you carry them in or drag them. If they could speak, they would probably say something like "If you think I'm going in there, you can **** right off!" They then give you such a glare that it makes your blood run cold! I know exactly how they feel. I believe it's called something weird like submodality modification in NLP-speak (not a huge fan myself, but that's more because of the underlying philosophy). I think it probably didn't work for me because what you're doing is trying to distort or change past events so that you feel differently about them, therefore possibly changing your response to a future similar situation. You can't change the past though (much as some of us would like to) and sometimes events are so traumatic and beyond your control that this only serves to relive the memory - that's what I found anyway. Try before you buy - apparently, some people hate those paraliminals (and the voice gets mixed reports, too). I'll send you a PM with instructions on how to obtain a sample --- I need something that requires no effort, period ;D! That's what I like about those paraliminals (well, the relaxation ones, anyway) - I suppose all I really want is canned "aren't you great?" messages ... Many thanks for that ! Very pleasant and easy to get into. I went shopping to a nearby city yesterday and listened to it on the train - I didn't get to the end - got woken up by the conductor because I'd fallen asleep and was apparently snoring! Oops! I listened to it again this morning and it's very relaxing - I found the voice easy to listen to and as you said it's quick and requires no effort ;D! Definately one to recommend for the website . As for canned "aren't you great?" messages - I could go with that - would be good to listen to at work ;D! The steps (from memory, I hope I'm not getting this wrong) are: 1. hourly positive affirmations 2. 2 daily 20-min relaxation tape sessions (1 before going to sleep), for 6 weeks or thereabouts (1. and 2. run simultaneously) 3. can't remember (I think it was making a conscious decision to change the behaviour, but not too sure!) I've read several times that if you say something often enough then you begin to believe it - I've not actually tried it myself but I did read of one case where a guy apparently kept saying "sh*t" and he said it so much that eventually everytime he said it, that's what he actually did! Not totally convinced that it was true - but I suppose it's possible. I guess the key to this is really believing in the positive statement(s) - sometimes you need positive evidence or positive experiences to back them up though. I managed to get hold of some more Paul McKenna stuff, and something really odd happened: I'm not able to follow the CDs because he speaks so quickly (he tells you to imagine something and by the time I've managed to imagine it, have lost the track completely), but the same thing doesn't seem to happen (at least not to the same extent) if I use the earphones the wrong way round Maybe my hemispheres are the wrong way round! lol! Well, if your brain is wired wrong then mine is too! Maybe it has something to do with whether you're "right brained" or "left brained"? I'm left handed (therefore right-brained). I don't know if it would make a difference - left handed and right handed people are supposed to process information in a different way. I found them pleasant to listen to and the induction was quick but what I did find was that the instructions which came further into the track were a bit too long/complicated so by the time he finished talking about one thing, I had only just begun to process the beginning of it so I gave up on it and just used it as a relaxing experience instead of trying to follow the instructions.
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Post by letsconnect on Oct 3, 2005 8:50:32 GMT -5
I suppose it's easier when the dentist actually "collects" you in the waiting room. Don't think I'd fancy someone smirking at me, though sometimes it's easy to misinterpret a smile for a smirk, depending on your mindset at the time? It wouldn't have worked for me, I know that much. I've had to give up on the "self-improvement" style recordings I'd been testing over the last days, because I noticed yesterday that they made me feel really depressed (esp. stuff like picking a "role model" whose behaviour you'd like to emulate - I started feeling totally inadequate after a while, LOL - actually, this is not funny! I had to start "counteracting" the effects with slogan-like affirmations, such as "embrace your limitations" ). So it's back to the relaxation-only ones for me. It's a pity, because the induction sequence (breathing) on the "Instantaneous Personal Magnetism" tape is fantastic. I think there might be a similar induction on the "Deep Relaxation" one, though. I hope .
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Post by vicki on Oct 4, 2005 10:59:41 GMT -5
I suppose it's easier when the dentist actually "collects" you in the waiting room. Don't think I'd fancy someone smirking at me, though sometimes it's easy to misinterpret a smile for a smirk, depending on your mindset at the time? Before I stopped going for years, the waiting room was away from "the room" and so I did used to get collected by the nurse. I always felt like I was being led away to some unimaginable and inescapable torture - even though I wasn't chained to anyone or forced into going in there. When I eventually went back, I still got collected - but this time it was even worse because although the waiting room was still on the ground floor, the dentist was downstairs.... and in the dungeon nobody can hear you scream . The only benefit of going downstairs was that because it was what used to be the cellar (yet another dental surgery in a converted old Victorian terraced house!), it was quiet so at least I couldn't hear any other disturbing noises from other places. Now that I see someone upstairs, there is a small waiting room up there which has two doors; one is the exit and one is "the room" - there isn't any need to be collected as the distance is less than 10 steps. I usually sit in the corner near the exit, cowering like a frightened animal. It's possible that I could have misinterpreted a smile for a smirk - who knows? Things quite often get scarily distorted or exaggerated when I'm that terrified. Although I did come across a couple of people years ago at college who did smirk or laugh when they came across others who they suspected were scared. It was usually because they didn't view the situation as scary so therefore they couldn't understand why someone else was scared and so therefore thought it was odd or funny. I've had to give up on the "self-improvement" style recordings I'd been testing over the last days, because I noticed yesterday that they made me feel really depressed (esp. stuff like picking a "role model" whose behaviour you'd like to emulate - I started feeling totally inadequate after a while, LOL I can relate to that and I've heard others say it as well. I think the problem with it is that you pick someone who's 'perfect' and then set about trying to achieve or replicate that 'perfection' - but it's impossible - even with plastic surgery! Everyone is still an individual both inside and out, so I would think it's probably better to try and make the best with what you've got or who you are, rather than trying to change into something you're not meant to be. That's not to say that if you accept who you are, that you'll stay like it forever (and therefore won't be able to quit the habit or behaviour you're not happy with) - but instead you work with who you are and what you've already got rather than trying to create a new unattainable perfection. It's taken me years to realise this (wish I'd realised it a bit sooner!). Three years ago, once I'd got the 'first' appointment back at the dentists over and done with, I thought that after a couple more appointments (and listening to more "relaxation" CD's, reading books, taking beta blockers and trying everything possible to stop others noticing my fears), providing that nothing went "wrong", I would be cured and that I'd no longer be scared. The opposite turned out to be true - it's just got worse and more terrifying and not better. So I have to work with what I've got and accept that maybe I will always be scared and it's more a question of how I manage the "scared". Alternatively, if I try something new (i.e. somehow discussing my fears with *the dentist* for a start ) then it's also possible that the fears may reduce or even disappear. I really have to check out the long deep relaxation title in that series (as I said, the self-improvement type ones seem to backfire on me, and if they backfire on me, I'm sure they may have negative effects on some other people as well. It's too much of a risk to take. Although "self-esteem supercharger" is pretty OK). General relaxation tracks wouldn't be a bad thing to recommend on the new website - I'm sure most people want to chillout the night before and certainly during appointments. Incidentally, as the 10 minute supercharger is the same length of time as my appointments, I wonder what would happen if I had it on my iPod and hit the play button the minute they call my name?? (Obviously I wouldn't hear anything he said - but I'm that scared that it often gets distorted into gobbledegook anyway! ). I'd say there's a market for a hypnosis CD like that (the perfect gift for stag nights and unloved relatives...) Oh how cruel!! That would definately appeal to those with an evil streak! Well, all I can say is, if you find out where to get one, let me know!!! ;D I'm right-handed, so there must be some other explanation Errr... pass. With hypnosis - some are more amenable to it than others and are likewise more responsive to some voices/techniques than others. I went to a past life regression evening a while ago with some people from work. For a start, I found it very difficult to get into a trance as the guy was veerrrryyyy sleeeeepy and booooorrrrring (and I was laughing or perhaps even smirking! ) so I had to rely on self hypnosis for the trance and try to 'join in' later on. I couldn't get into the past life regression thing at all - I just couldn't visualise it or follow the instructions. And yet, if I go and see the hypnotherapist, sometimes it involves re-examining past situations and I am able to do this really easily - sights, sounds, smell - the lot. Same here (though instead of relaxing, I nearly ended up throwing a temper tantrum because I couldn't follow it ;D). Simply switching off is probably the way to go ! Yeah.... sometimes it can have the opposite effect! Maybe it's better to have few drinks instead? ;D
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Post by letsconnect on Oct 5, 2005 5:34:26 GMT -5
I have to admit that my own dentist was quietly amused by my "performance", but I don't really mind smirks as long as they're cute . Good to hear I'm not the only one! I usually avoid making comparisons, but by the time the instructions came along, I was in a trance state and didn't remember that golden rule ;D. Anyways, I've recovered! Changing something inside yourself might work for some things, but where relationships are involved (and let's face it, it's a major aspect of dental phobia for most people), I don't think that's possible. Well, for me it's all about relationships anyway (beginning to sound like David Brent here ;D). On a personal level, I feel more comfortable recommending "natural" solutions. Not that there's anything wrong with pharmaceuticals, it's just a personal preference. Or better still, fall asleep in the waiting room Yeah.... sometimes it can have the opposite effect! Maybe it's better to have few drinks instead? ;D I'll drink to that
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Post by vicki on Oct 5, 2005 8:14:33 GMT -5
I have to admit that my own dentist was quietly amused by my "performance", but I don't really mind smirks as long as they're cute . I don't mind cute smirks either - as long as they are cute! ;D I'd settle for quietly amused - I just hope I'm not made to feel stupid or crazy about my "performance" at the next appointment. I can't believe I'm even contemplating talking about things - especially since I've been terrified, curled up and shaking in my shell for 20 years. They'll probably wonder what the hell is going on if I can manage to talk or hand the paper over. Up until now, my vocabulary mainly consists of "Hi, Bye, Yes, No & Errrr' with a few other stuttered words thrown in if I can manage it. I would think it will be a quite a shock to see me as I really am (panicking and looking like I've seen a ghost) rather than me just being a bit of a errr... 'strange' patient. It certainly will be a shock for me - I just hope that it doesn't all come crashing down around me - if it does then I know I won't go back to the dentist (or any dentist) and I can't afford for that to happen again. Changing something inside yourself might work for some things, but where relationships are involved (and let's face it, it's a major aspect of dental phobia for most people), I don't think that's possible. Well, for me it's all about relationships anyway (beginning to sound like David Brent here ;D). I think if most people on here actually picked their dental phobia 'problem' to pieces like I have, then they would probably find that it's all about relationships in one way or another. The agency director at my last agency was *just* like David Brent - for real. It used to have us in stitches (he also watched The Office but couldn't see the similarities!). The question is, if you're beginning to sound like him - do you do the dance as well? ;D On a personal level, I feel more comfortable recommending "natural" solutions. Not that there's anything wrong with pharmaceuticals, it's just a personal preference. After thinking about it, there's not much point in me taking beta blockers really as I'm not sure exactly how much use they are - my heart still pounds despite the drugs. I think they're probably more of a comfort blanket - one which I always hoped I'd 'grow out of'. Or better still, fall asleep in the waiting room Oooohhh no no no.... I'd be too scared they'd sneak up on me and do something unpleasant - the possibilities are endless with all those tools !
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Post by letsconnect on Oct 5, 2005 16:19:56 GMT -5
It certainly will be a shock for me - I just hope that it doesn't all come crashing down around me - if it does then I know I won't go back to the dentist (or any dentist) and I can't afford for that to happen again. I've made a complete idiot out of myself so many times that one more time was neither here nor there ... seriously though, if things don't work out as planned, it doesn't mean that they'll never work out. ;D Let's not go there - actually, with the new board, I might raise the age limit to 16+
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Post by vicki on Oct 6, 2005 4:06:30 GMT -5
I've made a complete idiot out of myself so many times that one more time was neither here nor there ... seriously though, if things don't work out as planned, it doesn't mean that they'll never work out. From a 'logical' viewpoint, I know that - "If at first you don't succeed....' etc. But this *thing* isn't logical or rational - certainly not in my case . When I was 15, at the last appointment before I stopped going, the fairly harmless words along the lines of "you might want to keep an eye on that cavity as it will probably need filling at your next appointment" were enough to terrify me even further, so much so, that there was no "next appointment". Even a seemingly ordinary observation scared me that much . The ironic thing is that despite my seven year absence, the original 'offending' tooth has managed to escape being filled so far . Let's not go there - actually, with the new board, I might raise the age limit to 16+ Ooo-errrr! Good to know that I'm still errr.. old enough ! You can imagine how relieved I was upon my return to the dentist, that things have changed so that the "tools" are no longer on show. Not my cup of tea at all. A tray full of sharp, glinting instruments looks very much like a box of ancient chakra torture tools to me ! And yet, I use a scalpel most days at work so I'm not actually bothered by sharp instruments !
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Post by letsconnect on Oct 8, 2005 11:27:05 GMT -5
Looks like it did remineralize then . Do you reckon it would be at all possible to have a more relaxed attitude about it? I mean, hopefully everything will go well, but it can be hard to accurately predict someone else's reaction, and if they aren't right for your needs - well, then they aren't right for the job, but that's hardly the end of the world?
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Post by vicki on Oct 10, 2005 3:37:22 GMT -5
Do you reckon it would be at all possible to have a more relaxed attitude about it? I mean, hopefully everything will go well, but it can be hard to accurately predict someone else's reaction, and if they aren't right for your needs - well, then they aren't right for the job, but that's hardly the end of the world? Difficult one.... No, it wouldn't be the end of the world and surprisingly, I probably do have a more relaxed attitude about it now - otherwise I wouldn't be able to sit here typing this (not something I could have done a few months ago). When *the time* comes though, it will be a completely different matter. Knowing what I'm like as a person, if things don't go well (actually I'd settle for just 'OK'), then I'll feel even more scared and stupid and won't see a dentist again. Obviously that wouldn't do given the acid problems, but also it wouldn't do me any good as I have to overcome this somehow. So, I might take a leaf out of SoSoScared's book and arrange an appointment with someone else about a month after my next appointment. That way, if things go badly there's a plan B. If it doesn't work out, I don't have to go back and there's less chance of me going 'on the run' again as I will have committed myself to trying again. I just have to find the 'someone else'. I just hate the way this whole thing makes me so weak or fragile even. Having panic attacks is bad enough without being terrified to the point of paralysis when I go to the dentist. It's even worse because everyone around me thinks I'm cool, calm and collected - and I'm not all time, just experienced at covering it up. I've seen websites with displays of shiny instruments as the main image (not UK ones though)... really makes you wonder whom they're trying to attract ;D! Probably the kind of people who I (and probably a few others reading this!) would not wish to meet! ;D (I'm half thinking of going into dental website design if I can figure out DreamWeaver, LOL) Sounds like a good plan (there's a fair amount of money to be made in web design ;D) if you can cope with things 'dental related' (which you obviously can now - otherwise Dental Fear Central wouldn't exist). I take it these would be 'phobic friendly' websites?
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Post by letsconnect on Oct 13, 2005 7:23:28 GMT -5
Sounds like a great plan !! The thing about cool, calm and collected people is that we tend to like them more when they turn out to be not quite as invulnerable as we thought they were... ;D Funny you should mention this, one person on here actually made a website for their dentist (as a part payment for treatment)... very phobic-friendly, too !
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Post by vicki on Oct 14, 2005 4:06:21 GMT -5
Sounds like a great plan !! Like all great plans - it *sounds* great - in theory!! Obviously I'm hoping I won't need the second appointment because the first attempt will be OK, but you never know - it's always good to have a plan B, especially if you're prone to panic The only problem is finding someone... The search has proved a bit fruitless so far. I've come across a couple who advertise themselves as phobic friendly - one practically on my doorstep and one about an hour and a half away. The one that's near me charges more than twice the price (private fees) of where I go and I have heard from a couple of people that unnecessary "cosmetic" work is quite often recommended. Money isn't really as issue as even though I'm currently an NHS patient, I've also got dental insurance (as I know at some point this is going to start getting expensive!) but I'm not a cash cow! The other one that is further away offers only sedation (a complete no no for me!) rather than a more "psychological" approach as it's the 'easiest' way to deal with scared patients (I asked my friend to phone them ages ago and find out what they do). I've also asked a few people 'surreptitiously' and I haven't turned up anything there either. So it looks like I'll have to systematically work my way though the yellow pages Unless you've got any recommendations? (I'll drop you a PM with my location ) The thing about cool, calm and collected people is that we tend to like them more when they turn out to be not quite as invulnerable as we thought they were... ;D I'm certainly not invulnerable (except in certain situations ) - quite the opposite ! It's just that from my own experience, sometimes I've been treated as a 'basket case' if I 'let my guard down' - and it doesn't help - just makes me feel a whole lot worse. Funny you should mention this, one person on here actually made a website for their dentist (as a part payment for treatment)... very phobic-friendly, too ! Hmmm.... don't think I'd be ready for anything like that for long while yet! ;D I have designed brochures and other stuff for various doctor's in return for them fitting in me at short notice etc.
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Post by letsconnect on Oct 14, 2005 8:46:35 GMT -5
See your PMs... probably not, unfortunately One thing to bear in mind (and I meant to mention this before but forgot): oftentimes "uneasiness" on behalf of the dentist is not actually due to your behaviour, but because they're frightened they won't do or say exactly the right thing to make things go well for you. It's a lot of psychological pressure, and even the most sympathetic ones may come across as uncomfortable as a result. Just something to bear in mind ... I'm certainly not talking about the type of reaction you got in the past, though - that was very insensitive.
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Post by vicki on Oct 15, 2005 13:06:32 GMT -5
One thing to bear in mind (and I meant to mention this before but forgot): oftentimes "uneasiness" on behalf of the dentist is not actually due to your behaviour, but because they're frightened they won't do or say exactly the right thing to make things go well for you. Tricky one... I have my suspicions as to what might happen (hope I'm wrong 'cause if I'm not I'll definitely need the second appointment with someone else Trying not to think about it - easier said than done!). Given that I'm going to attempt to talk (or failing that, hand the paper over! ) I know there's a good chance I'll freak out, the only trouble is - I don't think I'll be the only one. At the last appointment before he left, my previous dentist was keen to point out (probably as he knew I was terrified) how he'd personally selected his replacement - who was a "really nice guy" and how I would be "just fine". Didn't really help much as I was (and still am) terrified but I suppose it's the thought that counts. At the first appointment with the new dentist, he seemed fairly talkative (no idea what about though!! - too busy trying to keep the terror under control so I wasn't really listening ). Obviously I don't talk much (if I can talk - it's mainly monosyllabic one-word answers to avoid stammering) so he was a bit and it hasn't improved since. At the last appointment, I began to freak out when the duraphat was being applied and he was really obviously "uneasy". Then two x-rays followed and I was sat up in the chair and quite obviously (except my eyes were shut for most of it). When I did open my eyes, he was stood there looking like . I just closed my eyes again and wished the ground would open up and swallow me . So even without trying to explain anything, I am really really dreading the next appointment.
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Post by letsconnect on Oct 17, 2005 14:46:36 GMT -5
Maybe you're so good at "covering up" that it took him completely by surprise??
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Post by vicki on Oct 18, 2005 3:15:02 GMT -5
Maybe, I dunno... Not sure what it says about me though I know I've spent years "covering up" my panic in general so I've probably got a lot of experience But if that's the case I didn't realise I was that good at it(or bad - depending on how you view it?!) - either way, I am still absolutely dreading the next appointment (even more than I normally would if that's possible) because of it. Even worse than that, is that after I'd opened my eyes and seen him stood in front of me looking , he then scuttled into the cupboard to take the next x-ray and I very clearly heard the words (like he thought I couldn't hear because the door was shut) "Is she [mentioning me by name] starting to get worse?" I have no idea whether he was talking about me or my teeth but either way - I really wish I hadn't heard it.
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Post by letsconnect on Oct 18, 2005 11:58:16 GMT -5
I know what you mean... I caught a glimpse of my first appointment, err, "case notes" once and they weren't particularly flattering, lol ... I couldn't help but forgive this little faux-pas, considering all he'd done for me (I don't bear grudges), and after the initial "shock" was able to laugh about it. But yeah, if it had occurred in a different context, I might have felt pretty miffed and/or humiliated. Do you reckon there's any chance this guy will ever do the trick for you? If not, you may be wasting your time and energy. It's only really worth persuing if you reckon you may be able to get some rapport going (which may well be the case, but I don't know - what does your gut instinct tell you?).
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Post by vicki on Oct 19, 2005 4:35:07 GMT -5
But yeah, if it had occurred in a different context, I might have felt pretty miffed and/or humiliated. It was such a shock to hear those words - it made things even worse as I thought my 'cover' had been blown and so something bad would happen and I would panic even more as a result. Do you reckon there's any chance this guy will ever do the trick for you? Not sure... Being so terrified can affect the way you think and view things - so I'm probably not in a position to make a rational judgment on that score. I don't suppose I'll know unless maybe I try and explain somehow. I'm trying to persuade myself that I've got nothing to lose if it doesn't work out because I can see someone else instead but I haven't managed to convince myself yet. If it works out then maybe I'll make some progress but if it doesn't then at least I'll know what I'm *not* looking for. It's only really worth persuing if you reckon you may be able to get some rapport going (which may well be the case, but I don't know - what does your gut instinct tell you?). My gut is pretty confused on this one... I have a sneaking suspicion that my 'nervousness' makes him even more 'on edge' or nervous even He seems flustered and stammers a fair bit during my appointments. The more I get, the more he gets.
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Post by letsconnect on Oct 19, 2005 18:29:07 GMT -5
True enough - I suppose it all depends on how devastating it would be to you if it didn't work out. Impossible to make a judgment on that one - only *you* know how you might react. Some people would simply take it as a lesson learnt, others might be devastated. On the other hand, he might work out OK - who knows ? I think the ability to act happy, calm and reassuring is one of the defining characteristics of a dentist who's good with nervous patients. But not everyone has this ability, including dentists who are very empathetic otherwise. For most dentists, this is not an innate ability, but something that is learnt (as they grow more confident in their ability to handle nervous patients). You were saying that he's quite young, so that would explain a lot. The question is - can you accept this and work with it, or do you need someone who's more reassuring and confident in their ability to deal with a nervous patient?
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Post by vicki on Oct 20, 2005 7:00:03 GMT -5
True enough - I suppose it all depends on how devastating it would be to you if it didn't work out. Impossible to make a judgment on that one - only *you* know how you might react. Some people would simply take it as a lesson learnt, others might be devastated. On the other hand, he might work out OK - who knows ? If it didn't work out I think I would be pretty stressed by it (depending on the reaction and why it didn't work out), because it would just persuade me even more that I am perhaps nuts - even though I now know I'm not the only one with serious control and trust issues (thanks to this board . The trouble is that I can't do anything about what happened in my past that led to me being terrified, the only thing I can do is somehow do things differently to try and improve things in the future. If I view it as a lesson learnt, then in a way, it would probably teach me that I definitely am a problem and so not to mention it or appear nervous or panicking again. I know I've got to take the risk otherwise I'll never get anywhere with this and will spend the rest of my life either avoiding going or freezing in the chair and being terrified if I do go (not to mention the month of panic attacks and sleepless nights before each appointment). For most dentists, this is not an innate ability, but something that is learnt (as they grow more confident in their ability to handle nervous patients). You were saying that he's quite young, so that would explain a lot. The question is - can you accept this and work with it, or do you need someone who's more reassuring and confident in their ability to deal with a nervous patient? Depends on how he reacts I suppose... If he thinks it's funny or has a 'get a grip' type attitude about it then I definitely think I need to find someone else - as I obviously can't just 'get a grip' otherwise I would have done by now. If he's OK about it then it might be alright. But I think it's more likely that he'll go "Er... errr.... mmm... errr..... right....." which is what he did at the last appointment when my 'nerves' started to show a bit. This just made it a whole lot worse which is why I'm dreading the next appointment even more than normal . Regarding the ability to handle nervous (or terrified ) patients, I am usually quite patient with people who are learning something (after all, I had to learn to deal with stroppy clients in my job and that doesn't always come easily ), but I suppose the desire to learn has to be there in the first place doesn't it?
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Post by letsconnect on Oct 20, 2005 11:21:38 GMT -5
But deep down you know you're not nuts, right? Or you could deduct that your current dentist isn't right for your situation. Have you considered writing to him (with an honest explanation of your situation)? Might be a safer way of testing where he stands... If I had any recommendations for your area, I'd say "try someone different" - a fresh start would probably be the best thing. But without any recommendations, it's a bit of a case of "better the devil you know" ... What I might suggest is e-mailing or writing to dentists in your area, if you have a shortlist, and see how they respond. You've got a good while left before you need to make a decision. So that would be one option. Another thing I keep forgetting to mention - you were saying that you occasionally see a hypnotherapist. Have you addressed your fear of dentists with her? Might be an idea to get her take on this as well !
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Post by vicki on Oct 21, 2005 5:22:38 GMT -5
But deep down you know you're not nuts, right? I suppose the problem is that I've always been terrified right from the first appointment when I was 3, so I've never really known any different. Because I get stressed and have the odd panic attack anyway sometimes, I guess it must add to the feeling that I must be nuts - even though I can't be completely nuts otherwise I wouldn't have made it through uni or been able to hang onto a job. It's sometimes hard to think anything else though when you're surrounded by people who don't have a problem with it. Have you considered writing to him (with an honest explanation of your situation)? Might be a safer way of testing where he stands... Yes I have considered it - writing/email seems to be the way to go (don't think I could face stuttering and stammering my way through an explanation even if I could speak ). They have a general email address but I don't know if I'd feel comfortable using it as I don't know who or how many people read it . So, I think I'll probably type a letter instead. Because I use Duraphat toothpaste, I have to buy it from the dentists but as I can't face going in there unless I really really have to, I buy enough at each appointment to last until the next one or get someone else to get it for me. I've been asked by the receptionists a couple of times, why I buy so many tubes in one go! I seem to be a couple of tubes short at the moment though (so I've either miscalculated or lost some) which means I'll run out way before the next appointment. I am going to try and go in there and buy it myself if I can, then maybe I can hand the letter over so that he gets it before my next appointment (really really hope I don't chicken out I've tried to go and get the toothpaste before but ended up walking back down the road again and asking someone else to get it instead ). If I had any recommendations for your area, I'd say "try someone different" - a fresh start would probably be the best thing. But without any recommendations, it's a bit of a case of "better the devil you know" In that case, just hope the "devil I know" doesn't actually turn out to be but I won't know unless I try... . My alternative shortlist is very very short at the moment - needs to be a bit longer before I email/write to anyone on it - that way I would stand a better chance of a positive response (in theory). Re: Recommendations in my area - You never know... maybe one day Another thing I keep forgetting to mention - you were saying that you occasionally see a hypnotherapist. Have you addressed your fear of dentists with her? Might be an idea to get her take on this as well ! I'm going to email her over the weekend to see what she thinks (I'll probably need a few hours to compose the email - as it will mean I will actually be confessing to all of this to a 'real' person - something I'm not looking forward to but it has to be done).
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